This is one of the few scenes that you won’t see in any musical or animated feature. It’s unfortunate
that the character Talkative isn’t talked about enough as the scene explores some of the richest and
most in-depth theological lessons one could examine. For this reason, I make the claim that Talkative is
the most important character that Christian comes face to face with. Scenes like this make it the second
best-selling book of all time with its inquisitive dialogue that comes full circle by chapter’s end in a way
that readers might be surprised with and never see coming.

Talkative initially builds the hope of Faithful by saying that he too is on a journey to the heavenly
country. In reality, would many deny they are on such a journey? How few would suggest otherwise?
Faithful, in his lack of experience in the Christian walk is about to gain a valuable lesson in discernment.
To Faithful’s credit, even the most spiritually mature follower of Christ could easily be deceived by what
was to ensue. Faithful directs the conversation to “the things of God” (Bunyan 77). In just a short
amount of time, Talkative rattles off Christianese terminology such as “the new birth; the insufficiency
of our works; the need of Christ’s righteousness” (Bunyan 77). He even mentions prayer, repentance,
sufferings, promises of the gospel, and an emphasis on truth. Some of the most seasoned, veteran
believers fail to mention such important doctrines in daily talk. Not Talkative. He babbles the words out
like he is a scholar. He articulates such terms as if he was in deep meditation regarding them. Perhaps
Christian should have had an inkling to his true condition when Talkative responds to the subject of the
things of God by initially stating, “I like you” (Bunyan 77). Am I looking too much into this? Is this merely
trivial and unworthy of noting? Faithful couldn’t see at this critical moment in time of a first impression
that Talkative was more full of flattery than of substance. This is a key element of success to any
talkative deceiver living in disguise. If a deceiver wins the heart of a companion with flattery, the
audience is less susceptible to seeing the true character. If the chameleon butters up the converser, he
is more likely to hide the lack of true knowledge towards the given subject. How many naïve travelers
on their journey are caught up in the charm and personality of an individual only to be blinded by the
true spiritual condition of the other. By God’s providence, faithful had a faithful companion and a true
pal who would speak the truth in love to him regarding the true spiritual state of the flatterer. For
Christian would soon say to Faithful straightforwardly, “Deceived you are, if you think he is a sincere
pilgrim” (Bunyan 79). Would Christian resort to truth or merely his perception or opinion on the
matter? For we are reminded in the wisdom literature, “A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but
only in expressing his opinion” (Proverbs 18:2 ESV). Christian, using scripture instead of his own opinion,
tests the spirit of Talkative by accurately judging his condition by stating, “They say and do not” and the
Kingdom of God is not in word, but in power” (Bunyan 79). Expounding on his use of the scriptures from
Matthew 23 and I Corinthians 4, Christian states,

“Like a chameleon, he changes his color every time he changes his environment. Pure religion has no
place in his heart, in his house or in his daily living. His religion is only in his tongue. He is not speaking of
his own personal experience but merely repeating what he has heard. He is the very stain of reproach
of Christianity to all who know him” (Bunyan 79).

Perhaps the nail in the coffin for Faithful was when Christian evaluated Talkative by saying, “He thinks
that hearing and talking the Christian religion constitutes a Christian” (Bunyan 80). How many would
respond to such transparency in a defensive manner? How frequent would someone lash back and say,
“Don’t tell me who I can or can’t hang out with!” Showing his dedication to God’s Word and revealing
his focus on the glory of God, Faithful displays his progress in sanctification and growth in God’s grace by
stating, “Well, I see that saying and doing are two different things, and hereafter I shall watch that
distinction more closely” (Bunyan 80). It is rare to meet someone in our day and age who is open to
reproof. Faithful doesn’t hang his head due to selfish pride. He makes the most of his lesson and
decides to see for himself if these things are true. He goes back to Talkative with more alertness and a
more pointed effort to discern where Talkative stands spiritually. Would Christian’s words of advice
reign true?

Faithful, with Christian’s advice in mind, draws back for further and more intentional conversation about
the things of God. The dialogue that takes place the majority of the scene revolves around the question
Faithful generates in inquiring, “How does the saving grace of God manifest itself in the heart and life of
men” (Bunyan 81)? What a great question to ask anyone but perhaps none more fitting than to ask Sir
Talkative. For this would put the spotlight on the vocal man regarding whether he could accurately
explain not just how he professed to be a follower of Christ but rather, prove how the grace of God
manifested itself in his heart and transformed him from the inside out (if it ever did). Faithful tries to
dodge the question by quarreling about words with the phrases “Crying out” and “abhorring” sin. Do
you recall the apostle’s warning to young Timothy charging the saints before God “not to quarrel about
words, which does no good” (2 Timothy 2:14 ESV)? Faithful doesn’t take the bait but stays on topic
stating, “no one can abhor sin except by a godly distaste for it” (Bunyan 81). Is this not a true statement
from Faithful? The Psalmist says, “You who love the Lord, hate evil” (Psalm 97:10 ESV). The apostle John
tells believers not to love the world (1 John 2:15-17 ESV). Is not our affection for the Lord proven by
what we are to abhor? Remember how Evangelist reproved Christian when he trusted in Sir Worldly
Wiseman. Evangelist said to abhor Worldly Wiseman’s turning him out of the right way, his laboring to
rend the cross odious, and his setting of Christian’s feet in the way that leads to death (Bunyan 24). In
other words, Christian was to show his dedication to the Celestial king by what he did not love and even
by what he abhorred. As Evangelist did with Christian, so is Faithful doing with Talkative. It’s a loving
and evangelistic thing to do. Are we being faithful? In other words, are we asking such godly, biblical,
evangelistic, and faithful questions as Faithful? It’s what faithful brothers and sisters in Christ do.

After accusing Faithful of being a trap setter, Talkative finally expresses the second thing he feels is an
effect of grace by referring to “extensive knowledge” (Bunyan 82). Right off the bat, doesn’t your
conscience tell you there’s something that doesn’t meet the mark with this statement? As a faithful
brother in Christ does, Faithful goes directly to God’s Word by saying, “Paul says a man may have all
knowledge and understand all mysteries, and yet be nothing. Christ said, ’If you know these things
happy are you if you do them.’ He did not say happy are you if you know them” (Bunyan 82). He doesn’t
stop there as he gives more scriptural evidence by quoting the Psalmist, “Give me understanding and I
shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart” (Bunyan 82). Faithful quotes from I
Corinthians 13, John 13, and Psalm 119 to disprove and counter the claim from Talkative. This isn’t to
show Faithful has more knowledge of scripture. This isn’t some condescending, showing up of Talkative.
This is showing a character who has trusted in his gift of gab over the grace of God and how personally
experiencing the grace of God will result in special, distinct, biblical effects that scripture is clear on.
Remember, it’s only the word of God that can bring about faith (Romans 10:17). Faithful isn’t pridefully
trying to win an argument. Talkative’s soul is at stake. As are so other many Talkatives around us in our
world, in our very own City of Destruction. Are we pointing the Talkatives of our world to God’s Word?
Talkative accuses Faithful of studying scripture merely for the sake of arguing, becomes defensive, and
one who was once full of many words has now become a man of few words in awkward silence. Faithful
now takes the stage in giving a biblically derived response to the true effects of saving grace by
describing,

“…a hunger and thirst for righteousness, joy and peace, love and holiness, his increase in knowledge and
service to Christ, are determined by the amount and strength of his faith, one’s faith will grow, and a life
lived in harmony with His (God’s) teaching” (Bunyan 83).

We reach an interesting part of Part I of The Pilgrim’s Progress. If the reader has persevered to this point
(not many make it this far), they are faced with piercing questions that are fired right at the heart of the
soul. These piercing questions should reveal to us and others around us our true spiritual condition.
While Faithful is directing these questions to Talkative, Bunyan, in evangelistic fashion, is forcing the
reader to examine whether they are of the talkative nature or whether they’re a faithful follower of
Jesus Christ. No reader can persevere this far in the book and not be faced with such a challenging, gut-
wrenching, and in your face question such as the one Faithful delivers when he asks, “Have you
experienced the first part of this manifestation in your heart, and do your life and daily conduct
demonstrate it to others? Or does your religion consist only in talk and not in deed and in truth”
(Bunyan 84)? So what is it for you, dear reader? Have you professed being a Christian all of your life
only to examine that what you have said has only been merely in talk? Or, on the contrary, has God’s
saving grace transformed you from the inside out to where you live out these specific and biblical effects
of grace? There’s no in between! You have either “tasted and seen the Lord is good” (Psalm 34:8 ESV)
and personally experienced Him or you have not. You’re either in the family of those in the City of
Destruction or you are of the household of those who belong to Christ. You are either merely speaking
that you belong to the faith or both speaking and living out the faithful effects of grace. James says, “   But
be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves” (James 1:22 ESV). Have we like
Talkative deceived ourselves and talked ourselves into a lie? Or, like Faithful, are we clearly saved by a
type of saving faith that has led to the biblical effects of grace? Only you can answer that question for
yourself. However, as Faithful clearly states from II Corinthians 10, “Not he that commendeth himself is
approved, but whom the Lord commendeth” (Bunyan 84). Christ will be the final judge of this.

It is humorous to me when those who are young in the faith come across faithful biblical characters who
call out the evil from others. Whether it’s Christ making a whip of chords or overturning a table, whether
it’s Stephen calling his opponents stiff-necked, or Peter telling his audience at Pentecost that they were
the ones who crucified Jesus. These examples and more you can almost hear a collective gasp at the
boldness and forwardness of the truth they are speaking and the evil they are calling out from those
who aren’t used to or accustomed to such assertiveness. We see the flare of boldness, passion for truth,
and hatred of wicked unfaithfulness from Bunyan when he has his character Faithful say to Talkative,
“As the proverb says of a whore that ‘she is a shame to all women,’ so you are a shame to all professing
Christians” (Bunyan 85). Tell us how you really feel, brother Faithful. For those of you who thought this
was only a kids’ book, this quote should lay that thought to rest rather quickly. Faithful points to
Talkative’s spiritual adultery by his mere talk. While shocking and startling, what he said was the
absolute truth! Perhaps it was this unashamedness of the gospel truth that Talkative needed to hear to
humble him and eventually lead him to realize his desperate need of God’s sovereign grace (even
though he doesn’t come to faith in this book). Here’s the kicker. Faithful, this entire time of dialogue,
has not just been speaking to Talkative. In shocking fashion, the reader comes to understand at this
climactic point that Faithful has been speaking to his opposite, Unfaithful. Faithful has just had a
conversation with a talkative, unfaithful, spiritual adulterer who professed to be on the path towards
the Celestial City but in reality, is at enmity with God (James 4:4 ESV) and never possessed the faith.
While his talkative nature will fool those who live in the City of Destruction, those who are filled with
biblical discernment will see he is nothing more than an enemy of God (James 4:4 ESV). Unfortunately
for Talkative, a false convert is typically one of the hardest to reach for their heart grows harder and
harder unless graciously pulled out of the fire by the sovereign hand of God. Do we have the boldness
to call out evil? Are we so committed to truth that we will point out sin in others only to further
illustrate their need for Jesus Christ? Do we love others and Christ enough to be so unashamed of the
gospel even if it hurts their feelings?
​
Raising these topics and questions to ourselves, friends, family members, co-workers and anyone else
willing to hear and discuss these matters are vital. This has to do with the eternal souls of men and
women and of course, God’s glory. The famous puritan has no doubt given us so much to think on but
most of all, Bunyan has certainly given us something to talk about. May God be gracious in granting us
such faithful speech.

Perhaps we all at one time or another have heard a sales pitch that sounded appealing but
in reality, was not all that it measured up to be. That is the case with Christian and Mr. Worldly
Wiseman. Mr. Worldly Wiseman establishes authority in the situation by stating, “Hear me, since I
am older than you” (Bunyan 20). That is often the cry of those who aren’t committed to truth.
Notice, there is no emphasis on logic, evidence, reason, and especially no emphasis on the truth! He
doesn’t say it’s because I’m accurate, because it’s the best decision, or because it’s most consistent
with God’s Word but rather, because of his age that he should be credibly taken advice from.
Discernment should tell Christian that something isn’t right with such a statement. Wiseman
continues his sales pitch by wanting Christian to go down the path of worldly wisdom by sharing
how difficult the path Evangelist recommends when he states, “You are likely to meet with pain,
poverty, hunger, perils, dangers, lions, dragons, and even death, and you are sure to be weary and
lonesome much of the time, trudging your way in darkness” (Bunyan 21). This is Mr. Worldly
Wiseman’s plea to NOT follow the Christian path. In other words, do not be a Christian pilgrim so
that you can avoid all of the trials that come with being a follower of Christ. That is the message of
sir Worldly Wiseman. In other words, take the easy route. Take the path that is broad that leads to
destruction. If only Christian knew that was in reality what Worldly Wiseman was stating. Like a
joke not understood, the deception goes right over the head of the young pilgrim.

Worldly Wiseman wasn’t done with his pitch. He has quite the appeal of convincing
Christian to go down the path of the world by stating, “I can direct you (if you have patience to hear
me) into the way of obtaining what you desire, without your becoming exposed to these dangers
and trials you will find in the road you are on” (Bunyan 22). Notice that the deceiver turns the table
and puts the pressure on the young pilgrim by saying that it has to do with the patience of Christian.
Whether Christian really grasps the wisdom or not is based on his patience. In other words, “If you
don’t listen to me, it’s not because my words or message is flawed, it’s because YOU are impatient.”
This is a deceptive scheme from one of the world’s best salesman. The only problem? He’s a
salesman for heresy. He’s selling a false gospel. He’s selling a man-centered theology. He’s directing
Christian to a works based salvation (which is always a false gospel – see Ephesians 2:8-9) rather
than a gospel of grace. He’s pointing Christian to himself and the world rather than the only one
who can save his soul. Worldly continues with the condemning and damning sales pitch when he
adds, “Yes, relief is at hand. Besides, I will add, instead of perils and suffering, you shall find much
safety, friendships, and contentment” (Bunyan 21). Worldly Wiseman speaks of what the world
desires most. Popularity, happiness, and a safe life. Does this not echo the words of the false
teachers of our day? Making guarantees that are not mentioned in scripture and ensuring promises
that are empty and futile. As part of his sales pitch, he speaks of what the world desires most.
Christian, in this vulnerable moment, cannot resist this message. He gives in. The only problem?
When he takes that advice from the wisdom of this world, “His burden seemed heavier now than
before” (Bunyan 22). If Worldly Wiseman guaranteed Christian popularity, abundance of friendships,
and protection, why is Christian’s burden even worse than before? The reason is because the
wisdom of this world took him to the path of the law or in this allegorical tale, Mt. Sinai. Mt Sinai
being the location where Moses was provided the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20. So in other
words, by the recommendation of the wisdom of the world, Christian is trying to enter into Heaven
through the keeping of the commandments. No wonder his burden grows to an even greater
extent! Why does it grow greater rather than diminish according to the promise of Worldly
Wiseman? He starts going through the commandments and realizes how drastically he falls short.
Even when he gets to the commandment that “thou shall not murder” perhaps he realizes that
Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount says if you hate your brother or have unrighteous anger you’ve
committed murder in your heart. He gets to the commandment that “thou shall not commit
adultery” and perhaps initially he thinks he has kept it. While Christian hasn’t been unfaithful to
Christiana, Jesus says that whoever looks at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with
her in his heart. The commandments tell Christian that without fail he should have never taken
anything that was his, never commit blasphemy, and never at one point tell a lie. And because he
falls dreadfully short, his burden is now even bigger. He forsook the words of the Evangelist and
therefore forsook the words of scripture. It led him down a dangerous path and has left him with a
weighted burden too big for his back, a load he can no longer carry himself.

It will take discernment by the grace of God and perhaps a re-meeting of Evangelist to get
him back on the right track and lead him to the true way of salvation. We as believers know this
only way to be none other than the way, the truth, the life, Jesus Christ. Christ and Him crucified is
the only way for us to remove the burden from our back. May we repent of sin and look to the
message of the cross by believing and trusting in Christ’s finished work. Not trusting in anything in
and of ourselves or others.

Still in the context of worldly wisdom based on the sneaky work of Mr. Worldly Wiseman,
we should look no other place than scripture. In speaking of a religion that is pure and undefiled,
James says to “keep oneself unstained from the world” (James 1:27 ESV). How Christian would have
done well to keep his distance and hold fast to the words of Evangelist. Little did Christian know
that he was trusting in man rather than in God. The apostle Paul to the Corinthian church who
were trusting in men rather than in God and were following the various pastors who baptized them
instead of having their aim and focus on Christ says, “  For the wisdom of this world is folly with God.
For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,” and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts
of the wise, that they are futile.” So let no one boast in men. For all things are yours, whether Paul
or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are
yours, and you are Christ's, and Christ is God's” (1 Corinthians 3:19-23 ESV). Will we, like Christian,
be deceived by the wisdom of this world? Will we consider worldly words contrary to scripture
more near and dear to our hearts than that of what God has given us through His Word? What a
vital trap to avoid. Despite the deceptive words of Mr. Worldly Wiseman, the wisdom of this world
is folly with God. We have nothing to boast of whether it be in ourselves or in others.
Consequently, may we have sound discernment and compare what people are saying in the name
of God to God’s Word itself (see the Berean’s example in Acts 17:11). May we cling to the wisdom
of God as if our life and souls depend on it (they do) rather than the wisdom of this world.